TRANSCRIPT
Dick Pryor: This is Capitol Insider - taking you inside politics, policy and government in Oklahoma. I'm Dick Pryor with Quorum Call publisher Shawn Ashley, and our guest is Dr. Christine Pappas, chair and professor of political science and legal studies in the Department of Politics, Law and Society at East Central University. Dr. Pappas, thank you for joining us.
Dr. Christine Pappas: Thanks for having me.
Shawn Ashley: Dr. Pappas, the political climate in Oklahoma and around the nation appears very divisive, even within parties. What is driving that division?
Dr. Christine Pappas: There are so many factors that drive divisiveness in politics. We see people divided by the news media that they consume. So, instead of being informed by the news media, the news media is actually driving them to the left or driving them to the right. We also see the incidents of gerrymandering, where districts are drawn such that they become very hard to be competitive.
So, if, let's say, a Republican legislature is controlling the redistricting process, they're going to draw it to benefit themselves. Same with Democrats. If they were in charge, they're going to draw it to benefit themselves. This leads to fewer competitive districts. So, the districts we have are way more red or way more blue. Closed primaries is another factor here because, as we've seen in Oklahoma, it's often the most extreme candidate, either on the left or the right that's going to win that primary. And that leaves the general voting pool to only select between the two most extreme candidates, and not someone who might be more centrist.
And also the funding that exists with interest groups as they select candidates and fund extreme candidates left and right, you're going to see more polarization and then also less cooperation, because if a candidates been funded by a certain group and they have to go to Washington, or they have to go to Oklahoma City and pursue these aims, there's no room for them to compromise across the aisle. Those are just some of the things, from a political scientist’s point of view, that have caused polarization in the nation.
Dick Pryor: What campaign messages that are fueling the division do you think may be resonating with voters this year?
Dr. Christine Pappas: Man, I think any message that demonizes the other side is, is a message that's going to polarize our politics. There's so much that Americans can agree on. There's probably 85 to 90% of issues that we could find common ground on. But when candidates run, they can't run on common ground that doesn't mobilize people. So they come up with shrill messages like, this is the end of the end of times, like, you got to choose me. I'm your only hope. Like things like this. These are not the things that are going to bring Americans together.
Shawn Ashley: Is that political polarization likely to influence voting and outcomes in races this year?
Dick Pryor: I'm sure, I'm sure that it will. I'm, you know, especially looking at the presidential campaign. We're going to see extreme polarization in that campaign, because in almost every issue, you're going to see very extreme policy choices. And there have been some candidates or some elections - I think back to the election of 2000 - where voters basically said, well, the Bush and Gore, they're the same. Like it doesn't matter who we choose. It doesn't, you know, they're going to be the same. That's what we thought there in 2000. But I definitely think the presidential election in 2024 is going to rely on very stark differences, policy wise.
Dick Pryor: Are you seeing local elections being nationalized?
Dr. Christine Pappas: I have seen incidences of that. When I look at campaign websites for local candidates, we do see local politicians kind of attach themselves to these national level politics and issues.
Shawn Ashley: With these stark lines drawn and rhetoric that's often distasteful, where does that leave voters who don't respond to hyper partisanship and these divisive messages?
Dr. Christine Pappas: Well, this is…that's such a good question because voters don't like, I mean, we don't like to hear this. It's alienating. It creates a feeling that there's no place for the moderate voter, the more middle of the ground kind of person. And they're probably going to just abstain from the entire election because they won't feel like there's a home for their voice. Most people, like, I've been teaching political science for 25 years, and most of my students, most of the people I talk to, they're more centrist. They're pragmatic. They seek middle of the road solutions. And so, they're really not interested in these far right or far left solutions. They want people to work together. They want the country to work together and maybe take good ideas from both sides and find a middle ground. But I'm telling you, our politics basically make that impossible.
Dick Pryor: We're going to leave it right there. Dr. Christine Pappas, thanks for being with us.
Dr. Christine Pappas: My pleasure.
Dick Pryor: For more information, go to quorumcall.online. You can find audio and transcripts at kgou.org and look for Capitol Insider where you get podcasts. Until next time, with Shawn Ashley, I'm Dick Pryor.
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